Sawada Tsunayoshi || Vongola Decimo TYL (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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rebornfandom2018-12-16 07:29 pm
warmskies) wrote in rebornfandom2018-12-16 07:29 pm
Entry tags:
“TYL Tsuna wasn’t ruthless enough and was a bad mafia boss”
original tumblr post here.
subtitle: fight me 1x1 irl
Joking aside, I was kind of bewildered when I read that in a Tsuna character development analysis kind of post. It seemed so contradictory to what I had seen in canon. It’s still bugging me something fierce, ha ha, so I thought I would make my own post as a counter to the idea.
Just to clarify: this is about what we see of the TYL Tsuna from the Millefiore timeline.
From what I understand, the argument was dependent on two things:
- Tsuna wasn’t ruthless enough
- Tsuna destroyed the Vongola rings, compromising the Vongola and the world’s safety
However…. There are some problems here which I’m going into here. It’s, uh. Probably going to get pretty long here. Just a warning.
First of all, we need to clear up something here: just because he was a bad traditional mob boss does not mean he was a bad mob boss period. That was never meant to be the path the Vongola went down, and that’s not how Tsuna is, either. He says it himself during the Vongola Trials: he’d either change the Vongola around or he’d burn it to the ground.
“But James! Isn’t that only what 14 year old Tsuna went through?” As a matter of fact, the opposite is hinted at! Consider: how did TYL Hibari know that putting Tsuna in a near death state like that would make him and the Vongola Ring come out stronger? Think about that.
Secondly of all, you’re asking Tsuna to go into a ruthlessness dick measuring contest (essentially) with Byakuran. This is the guy who:
- is the villain so bad prior antagonists Mukuro Rokudo and Xanxus decide to team up against: both with Tsuna and with each other (Fran being loaned to Varia an instance of this)
- is one of two villains out of the whole series deemed bad enough to have death be a necessity with by Tsuna of all people (even if 1. it didn’t last and 2. Daemon Spade was kind of already dead to start with)
- is canonly shown to use his connection to multiple universes to cheat like a motherfucker (and thus could cut Tsuna’s attempts at being the bigger dick off)
- is canonly shown to be treating all the worlds with the endgame of ACTUAL LITERAL APOCALYPSES as his goal which Shoichi outright tells us, not to mention how he gets one of his true Funeral Wreaths to prove his loyalty
That last bit also plays into the “but he’s compromising the world’s safety” bit. The world is already compromised just by Byakuran existing at this point.
Thirdly… Tsuna Sawada isn’t ruthless “enough”? Are we talking about the same TYL figure?
Are we talking about the same man who faked his death to nearly the whole world save for two other people, and neither of those people were his closest friends who would probably literally die for him?
Are we talking about the same man who not only arranged for his younger self and guardians to come to that hellish and horrifying future, which is one thing, but also made sure that unarmed inexperienced uninvolved civilians would get dragged into it all as well. Why? To push his younger self into fighting and getting better because he knows himself so well that he knows he fights better when he has something to protect.
And, judging by how Kyoko automatically calls 14 yr old Tsuna “Tsu-kun”, he did that to two people he still cares about and has close relations with!
Does Tsuna, as we know him, act ruthless regularly? No. Does he like it? Probably not! But can Tsuna Sawada act ruthless when there’s no other choice and it truly matters? Absolutely.
However, more than anything else, one of Tsuna’s strongest traits is his empathetic intelligence. Beneath all the typical shonen flash, it’s always surfaced and helped him. This is more personal and less canon based than anything, but I myself think Tsuna would look at a person like Byakuran and realize that no amount of ruthlessness would win against that kind of person. And does ruthlessness every truly help? Did ruthlessness help the Estaneo Famiglia? Did ruthlessness help Xanxus in his bid for power? His encounters with Mukuro and Xanxus were his first two truly serious encounters with the mafia past just reputation and bizarre occurrences in his life. You can eat a sock if you think they (and the things in their lives which made them as they were) did not leave a lasting impression on Tsuna and his view of “ruthlessness”.
Moving on, we’ll go onto the fourth point and start talking about that TYL Tsuna’s decision to destroy the rings. This, by the way, might as well be it’s own category. Because… “He endangered the Vongola”? The Vongola were already in danger. Byakuran would go after them one way or another.
One could actually make the argument that destroying the Vongola rings bought the Vongola themselves time. TYL Yamamoto explains it to the younger Tsuna and Gokudera: TYL Tsuna destroyed the rings to keep “people” from fighting over them.
Let’s be honest. By “people”, no doubt Byakuran is meant. After all, he’s the one searching for all of the Tri-Ni-Sette for ultimate power for shits and giggles.
Byakuran is already going to set the world to fire and ash one way or another, mind. However, by destroying the main thing he’s going after the Vongola for, there’s a chance that he wasn’t going after the Vongola in as much of a hurry as he might have been if they still had the rings.
Also… This is the reason we’re given by TYL Yamamoto. Remember that Yamamoto was not let in on the secret plan. That means there’s a decent chance that the reason Tsuna gave him… might not necessarily be the true or only reason for why he destroyed the Vongola Rings.
Coming to a close, we’ll finish off the Vongola Rings segment of this with the assertion that destroying the rings has put the world in jeopardy. When, actually…
[first image is of the shattered Vongola rings after the Simon Famiglia attacked during the inheritance ceremony. Speech bubble: The Vongola Rings have been broken!]
[Second image: Talbot saying “What say you? The Vongola Rings are writhing to be reborn.]
[Third image: Timoteo going “You don’t mean to say that the Vongola rings can be fixed?” Talbot responds with “More or less, yes.”]
…That might not necessarily be the case.
subtitle: fight me 1x1 irl
Joking aside, I was kind of bewildered when I read that in a Tsuna character development analysis kind of post. It seemed so contradictory to what I had seen in canon. It’s still bugging me something fierce, ha ha, so I thought I would make my own post as a counter to the idea.
Just to clarify: this is about what we see of the TYL Tsuna from the Millefiore timeline.
From what I understand, the argument was dependent on two things:
- Tsuna wasn’t ruthless enough
- Tsuna destroyed the Vongola rings, compromising the Vongola and the world’s safety
However…. There are some problems here which I’m going into here. It’s, uh. Probably going to get pretty long here. Just a warning.
First of all, we need to clear up something here: just because he was a bad traditional mob boss does not mean he was a bad mob boss period. That was never meant to be the path the Vongola went down, and that’s not how Tsuna is, either. He says it himself during the Vongola Trials: he’d either change the Vongola around or he’d burn it to the ground.
“But James! Isn’t that only what 14 year old Tsuna went through?” As a matter of fact, the opposite is hinted at! Consider: how did TYL Hibari know that putting Tsuna in a near death state like that would make him and the Vongola Ring come out stronger? Think about that.
Secondly of all, you’re asking Tsuna to go into a ruthlessness dick measuring contest (essentially) with Byakuran. This is the guy who:
- is the villain so bad prior antagonists Mukuro Rokudo and Xanxus decide to team up against: both with Tsuna and with each other (Fran being loaned to Varia an instance of this)
- is one of two villains out of the whole series deemed bad enough to have death be a necessity with by Tsuna of all people (even if 1. it didn’t last and 2. Daemon Spade was kind of already dead to start with)
- is canonly shown to use his connection to multiple universes to cheat like a motherfucker (and thus could cut Tsuna’s attempts at being the bigger dick off)
- is canonly shown to be treating all the worlds with the endgame of ACTUAL LITERAL APOCALYPSES as his goal which Shoichi outright tells us, not to mention how he gets one of his true Funeral Wreaths to prove his loyalty
That last bit also plays into the “but he’s compromising the world’s safety” bit. The world is already compromised just by Byakuran existing at this point.
Thirdly… Tsuna Sawada isn’t ruthless “enough”? Are we talking about the same TYL figure?
Are we talking about the same man who faked his death to nearly the whole world save for two other people, and neither of those people were his closest friends who would probably literally die for him?
Are we talking about the same man who not only arranged for his younger self and guardians to come to that hellish and horrifying future, which is one thing, but also made sure that unarmed inexperienced uninvolved civilians would get dragged into it all as well. Why? To push his younger self into fighting and getting better because he knows himself so well that he knows he fights better when he has something to protect.
And, judging by how Kyoko automatically calls 14 yr old Tsuna “Tsu-kun”, he did that to two people he still cares about and has close relations with!
Does Tsuna, as we know him, act ruthless regularly? No. Does he like it? Probably not! But can Tsuna Sawada act ruthless when there’s no other choice and it truly matters? Absolutely.
However, more than anything else, one of Tsuna’s strongest traits is his empathetic intelligence. Beneath all the typical shonen flash, it’s always surfaced and helped him. This is more personal and less canon based than anything, but I myself think Tsuna would look at a person like Byakuran and realize that no amount of ruthlessness would win against that kind of person. And does ruthlessness every truly help? Did ruthlessness help the Estaneo Famiglia? Did ruthlessness help Xanxus in his bid for power? His encounters with Mukuro and Xanxus were his first two truly serious encounters with the mafia past just reputation and bizarre occurrences in his life. You can eat a sock if you think they (and the things in their lives which made them as they were) did not leave a lasting impression on Tsuna and his view of “ruthlessness”.
Moving on, we’ll go onto the fourth point and start talking about that TYL Tsuna’s decision to destroy the rings. This, by the way, might as well be it’s own category. Because… “He endangered the Vongola”? The Vongola were already in danger. Byakuran would go after them one way or another.
One could actually make the argument that destroying the Vongola rings bought the Vongola themselves time. TYL Yamamoto explains it to the younger Tsuna and Gokudera: TYL Tsuna destroyed the rings to keep “people” from fighting over them.
Let’s be honest. By “people”, no doubt Byakuran is meant. After all, he’s the one searching for all of the Tri-Ni-Sette for ultimate power for shits and giggles.
Byakuran is already going to set the world to fire and ash one way or another, mind. However, by destroying the main thing he’s going after the Vongola for, there’s a chance that he wasn’t going after the Vongola in as much of a hurry as he might have been if they still had the rings.
Also… This is the reason we’re given by TYL Yamamoto. Remember that Yamamoto was not let in on the secret plan. That means there’s a decent chance that the reason Tsuna gave him… might not necessarily be the true or only reason for why he destroyed the Vongola Rings.
Coming to a close, we’ll finish off the Vongola Rings segment of this with the assertion that destroying the rings has put the world in jeopardy. When, actually…
[first image is of the shattered Vongola rings after the Simon Famiglia attacked during the inheritance ceremony. Speech bubble: The Vongola Rings have been broken!]
[Second image: Talbot saying “What say you? The Vongola Rings are writhing to be reborn.]
[Third image: Timoteo going “You don’t mean to say that the Vongola rings can be fixed?” Talbot responds with “More or less, yes.”]
…That might not necessarily be the case.